Actress Carole Lombard won a coin toss against her mother and Clark Gable's press agent Otto Winkler when deciding whether they would fly or go by train back to LA. Ironically the article is surrounded by more pages of advertisements than its total page count. Is the earlier contributer, above, right tht there was disagreement in the cockpit? - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238 at 23:37, 30 November + amended (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41 at 01:33, 1 December 2019, In order to have a satisfactory answer to this question the first crashing sound in the cockpit needs to be definitively either the touchdown of the left wheels or a collision with the truck. percent. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The 2nd officer, Reichel, most likely did not call out altitude on approach. It was a DGAC (Mexican) investigation. The Spanish language page is similar to the English version. The most comprehensive description and analysis by far is in the December 1983 issue of Flying magazine pages 100 to 107. - para break moved, + para amended, by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contribution), at 20:30, 25 December 2019, - section created at 22:08, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.246.108. If you found this video to be interesting, be sure to subscribe as there is a new video every Saturday. . I have read nothing that suggests there was a disagreement in the cockpit as they prepared for landing. Maybe if the pilot saw obstructions ahead. As an example, there is an immediate inconsistencies about what the tower is told the crew about approach lights and the ICAO report on the condition of those lights.[/quote]. Enjoy free WiFi, free parking, and breakfast. This wreckage continued aft, tearing away all We'll just consider it a "personal best" for the airport. We'll never know because of the damage to the CVR: "The possibility exists that the callouts were made but erased in that portion of the CVR tape; however, it is highly unlikely that this was accomplished. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . instrument letdown to a closed runway and a difficult tran The inducement of the This contributor has read transcripts that start at and include the first signifigant contacts in Mexican airspace but I do not have access to the entire CVR which presumably is near 3 hours in length. The system was apparently adjusted soon after with help from US authorities, this around the same time the US assisted with producing explicit instructions on the "side step" manouver for Mexico presumably so pilot error won't cause another accident but also (less cynically stated) to make airtravel safer - will need to find sources for this. CVR of Western Airlines 2605, terrifying. Theyd have no obvious warning tht 23R was in front of them but hidden. Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder). Gilbert probably screamed "Oh Jesus Christ.turn left!" Key details are the same: 23L was closed, 23R was the open runway with a NOTAM many days before. Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft Crew fatigue is believe to have been a contributing cause. The Originals Boutique, Htel Les Trois Roses, Grenoble Meyla. Quoting . Follow. that just after Reichel's calm call to go around the aircraft collided with the dump truck. It is strange. A friend of the Western Airlines DC-I0 captain had but 18 inches of the right horizontal stabilizer, along with the right inboard and outboard elevators. The tower tapes to this day have never been released. ed the knowledge to deal with the human aspect identified Nine pages of information from the ICAO circular might be "too much" information but an effort to add notable information might be helpful. Why was the construction contractor permitted to have equipment all over (or along the side of) the runway with the ILS system? By logging into your account, you agree to our. As the closed, wrong Runway where the DC-10 crashed was the closest to the street (where the passengers arrive to the Benito Juarez International Airport) as the one under repair, the correct one where the flight had to land was probably Runway 23L, this can be confirmed as the many photos of the remains of the airplane, mainly the gas turbine sitting on the pavement is shown close to the street, thus the WRONG (Closed) runway has to be 23R. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins It has been said that the crew was in a strong disagreement, and that the pilot continued the landing in spite of first officer strong disagreement. For more information, please see our The front wheels never touched the runway until perhaps the aircraft was destroyed. Gilbert, Reichel and Walsh flew the Night Owl route on October 31 as a back up crew. Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. A periodical featuring an advertisement of the L1011 depicts a perspective just off the nose of the aircraft. The DC-10 included no cable backup for the hydraulic-powered flight controls because it was considered nearly impossible for three hydraulic systems to fail during one flight. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. . tion was a concern in all accident. control. Browse more videos. that all is lost after the right tail plane and elevator were nearly severed along with the loss of the upper right hand section of wing flaps. Flight 2605 didn't just land on the wrong runway, it landed in the grass to the left of the runway and the ILS system could be why because no one was watching data gauges (dials?) I'd like to reply to yours as well. The US allowed Mexico to lead their official investigation into the accident. The plane then quickly hit the truck, the electric pole, the excavator cab and finally the building. All of them involved pilot fatigue, either from The CVR recording has a violent crashing sound which could be the initial collision with the dump truck and immediately following this is pilot Charles Gilbert's exclamation of "Jesus Christ" and a complete change of intensity in the cockpit. Its a red herring to say they landed on the wrong runway. ", - section created at 20:44, 30 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.131.243, Eduardo Valenciana has written a book containing a fair amount of material dedicated to the flight and the events of the crash: " Jumpseat, A Tale of Twisted Fate". Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships Don't have the report but the FAA provides this summary of the investigation: See the following URL for info. NASA setting the pace, maybe there is hope for a change on So the CVR may in fact be missing details. The widely recognized, deeply systemic problems of control by market forces means any article is going to be edited to surrender to those market forces. 1979 was the planes deadliest year. Valable sur un trajet avec TER entre Grenoble et une gare de la rgion au-del de Grenoble-Alpes Mtropole. More curious is the fact that Gilbert had just written up Reichel and had a meeting with him the day of the flight although that was said to have been amicably concluded. Report. these human factors were identified by the investigation I had to read it again to make clear they were to the left of 23L also!! He expressed serious concern about the approach to the air - section created at 20:35, 1 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.9.109, There are historical examples of flights that end in accidents where pilot(s) will try to land in dangerous conditions, crosswinds or penetrate dangerous storm systems. The cause was due to ice formation on the wings. What your father is saying, used to circulate for a while, but the CVR didn't support it. Can we correlate these similarities to previous and future accidents at that time of the DC-10? A part of the CVR is widely available online. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. You can also try to find a copy of David Grayson '"Terror in the Skies", published by W.H.Allen (London, England, 1989), which has a chapter dealing with that particular accident. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. that would have shown the ILS inaccuracy. port and the hassle he usually received from the air traffic These recordings always give me the heebie-jeebies. We know that runway 23L was closed to traffic that day, as the runway was being resurfaced. Mark Lincoln (talk) 00:45, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply], The Spanish language page of Wikipedia cites the other runway, not 23L. after initial touch down, when all engines were increased to a little over 100 Note that the L1011 and B747 of the same era would lock the slats outward in the event of hydraulic fluid loss. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Sep 3 - Sep 4. BY AR385 - Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 am - Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 am #10741679. Required to reach a conclusion? Flying Magazine is not a credible source. LAST WORDS SAIF BY FIRST OFFICER: BRACE CHARLES! American Eagle flight 4184, an ATR 72 flying from IND to ORD, crashed in Northern Indiana on October 31, 1994, which was 25 years ago yesterday. The impact with the truck didn't destroy the plane, it continued to fly therefore we can assume the pilots would be actively talking (or screaming) until the next impacts and the final impact and their and the plane's destruction. The nose gear did not contact The cause was due to ice formation on the wings. Ironically this hearsay reaches the same conclusion: the pilots were to blame. Its pilots loved the plane. ", This page was last edited on 3 May 2022, at 01:09. that he owned a T-6 and flew for fun, made such a mistake? This thread is the most recent on Western 2605 on this website, so I thought I would add to it from here so that others might follow a google link and learn something as I have about this crash. and our The right landing gear was momentarily on its way to impacting the loaded dump truck. It ought to be (if at all possible). Gilbert had limited or no control over the plane after the collision with the dump truck. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQWYdByNSg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DlBRS0PiE. Using the internet archive I was able to locate an archived copy of the airdisaster.com page with the wav file listed (May 2006), but the wav file itself (wal2605.wav) had not been archived. All times are GMT. Something down the lines that one of the runways (sounded like 5R by his description) was closed for maintenance, but ATC told the flight that it was cleared to land on the closed runway (because he was probably used to saying 5R so many times before, as, You can find the CVR tapes on airdisaster.com. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. This behaviour was a contributing cause of the accident, but is completely ignored in the article. will not be used to prevent other accidents. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQWYdByNSg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DlBRS0PiE. This is his recollection which conflicts with two reports. - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80, His credibility has been questioned but he is persuasive. and our What happened was it was 3am, they were all half asleep on the job and descended into the ground, and one main gear happened to come into contact with a closed runway. " The CVR is described as sustaining damage in this report, DOT/FAA/PM-86/46 "Aeronautical Decision Making -Cockpit Resource Management": "The voice recorder was recovered from the wreckage; however, the unit had been pierced. - paragraph amended at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80, He has expressed considerable accusatory disdain for the Mexican authorities and their airport and believes that their share of blame for the disaster has never been properly acknowledged. Cause: Crashed into construction equipment during landing on a closed runway or pilot errorAircraft: McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10Operator: Western AirlinesPass. He was defending his company by blaming the pilots. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. The aircraft did not hit particularly hard - the left wheels on the side of 23L only - 2 g of force is not "hard" or that unusual according to reports on the DC-10 or other aircraft for that matter. The L1011 had the ability to 'land itself' with the proper equipment installed at the airfield. It's pilots loved the plane. (WARNING, DISTURBING) Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979. A main source for this wikipedia page appears to be an article from "Flying Magazine" which lacks the detail of other reports and sources. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft His flight manager had promised to accident had to be one of human factors. - paragraph added at 22:43, 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130, - section created at 18:41 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.249.251 (+ amended by 68.33.78.69 at 20:09), 25 December 2019, Flying Magazine is commercial journalism. Population: 6,630 People From Appendix F Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management: "The right main landing gear was severed and, as it swung aft, it and the destroyed truck wreckage impacted the right inboard flap and aileron which was carried away. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews Perhaps they were sloppily dressed? With a fogbank unluckily placed they would not see 23R; and this is at night, so they likely wouldnt see the fogbank itself either. then realised rather late tht they were now on the ILS path so this must be 23L - wrong runway - and they better go around. I can't remember where I read the article, but it was very interesting. "There is also the possibility that the ILS signal could have been unstable due - the eternal DI, Western was founded by a guy who flew for the RAF in WWI. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air Aircraft type McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10Operator Western AirlinesRegistration N903WAFlight origin Los Angeles Int'l AirportLos Angeles, California, United St. The CVR may in fact be missing information. As a lay person with a recent fascination with this crash, I'm assuming this was the truck collision by the noises on the CVR. I'm trying to find reliable online information to expand on the very short account of Western Airlines flight 2605 which landed on the wrong runway at Mexico City airport on 31 October 1979 and burst into flames after hitting construction equipment. Whether the motivation is morbid curiosity or not I think it is worthwhile. McDonnell Douglas made a design change and moved the location of the hydraulic lines from the floor to the ceiling, as the under floor mounted lines were crushed by the collapse of the floor following decompression in that crash. We haven't read this conclusion in any of the reports because no one has access to ILS signaling after the fact, at least in this contributors understanding of what data was recorded in air operations so unfortunately this is speculation based on what happened. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. found him noticeably upset about the trip to Mexico City. (Ironically the poorly designed cargo door was not immediately changed.). Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles to Mexico City. This is not a touchdown this is the aircraft being destroyed. I can't remember where I read the article, but it was very interesting. American Eagle flight 4184, an ATR 72 flying from IND to ORD, crashed in Northern Indiana on October 31, 1994, which was 25 years ago yesterday. Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder) Vintage news cast with low volume CVR but informational at beginning Louder CVR with no introduction LAST WORDS SAID BY CAPTAIN: JESUS CHRIST! The following excerpt discusses flight 2605 as well as three other accidents that for purposes here aren't identified. held at the Hyatt-Regency Hotel Washington, DC September 29-0ctober 1, 1981. Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. crew was fatigued from flying all night, landing at 0542." Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters Reichel was described as tired or unfit and he said so at one point in the cockpit. I have read something that suggests there was a disagreement in the cockpit about matters unrelated to the actual landing stage of the flight.

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